Peophin ([info]siktah_rouge) wrote,
@ 2008-07-02 11:27:00
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Entry tags:and i thought tokyopop was bad, essay, tenipuri

[essay] Viz's Mistakes: The Mistranslation of Tenipuri
It is known amongst most fans of Prince of Tennis that the American publisher, Viz, is not entirely accurate in their translation.

Wait, that doesn't sound quite right, let me try it again...

It is known amongst most fans of Prince of Tennis that the American publisher, Viz, is complete crap at translating the series.

There, that sounds better, doesn't it?

Harsh, but, as many fans would agree, very true. There are lots of mistakes in Viz's Tenipuri-- from little common mistakes to horrible blasphemies. Here is an outline of many [but probably not all] of them.


First of all, we'll start with the more well-known changes. A personal little nitpick of mine is that the surnames and given names are reversed-- not uncommon given the fact that we're a Western audience, but it still throws me off a bit whenever I read it. More importantly, there is the fact that all of the surnames that the characters use to refer to each other are changed to given names. This... is very distracting, especially if you're familiar with Japanese culture. Politeness is big in Japan, and the way a character refers to someone can reveal a lot about the relationship they have with that person. Then Viz just goes and... destroys all that. The audience isn't stupid; many of us know that the Japanese don't typically use given names, and if some don't, a simple editor's note will do the trick. Viz was able to explain the cultural differences when they did series like Rurouni Kenshin, so why is it so difficult in Tenipuri? Let me tell you, as a Yagyuu roleplayer, it is very distracting to see him referring to everyone by given name only.

Viz, overall, doesn't seem to like names very much. In fact, some of them they just plain get wrong. Observe an instance of Oshitari's name:

Photobucket

That's right, Oshitori. This I could forgive if it was a simple typo, but they do this every. single. time the name appears. How difficult is it to romanize a name properly? [...Speaking of which, Karupin becomes "Kalpin." This might be just another nitpick, but... do we have an official spelling of the name? Anybody?]

Viz also tends to take a lot of liberties with their translation. This often results in famous lines being mistranslated. Like, that one line. You know the one. Tezuka requests a match with Echizen, they play, Tezuka beats him, Tezuka has him down on his knees, and then he looks at Echizen and says...

Photobucket

...wait, what? That doesn't sound right. Let's try that one again:

Photobucket

...there, that's better. Looking at the original Japanese-- "Seigaku no hashira ni nare"-- I can safely say that "become Seigaku's pillar of support" is as good as it's going to get for that line. So where does the "you can carry" blah blah blah stuff come from? I can see the "pillar = carry" thing, but.... that's taking quite a few liberties. It makes me wonder what other potentially important lines they're missing.

[Another translation I personally have never liked is the scene where Inui asks Kaidoh to play doubles with him. Kaidoh says "I refuse," but Viz changes it to a simple "No." It's another famous line, and beautiful the way it was originally, and changing it completely loses the weight of the scene. Grr.]

Which leads me into another point-- "Seishun Gakuen" is translated as "Seishun Academy," and the abbreviation "Seigaku" is turned into "Seishun." This is also very distracting. Why not just leave the "gakuen" untranslated and leave the "Seigaku" as is? It's not like we're going to care if "gakuen" isn't translated-- it's a school name. And besides, the back of their uniform says "Seigaku," anyway. Give us some credit here, Viz.

Viz also seem not to have a very good grasp on the way characters are meant to speak. Take one of Atobe's lines, for example. Let's compare the scanlation version:

Photobucket

with the Viz version:

Photobucket

...Ignoring the fact that they probably switched the speech bubbles around again. Atobe is a prissy rich boy. So, "nerds"? "Whup your butt"? Can you see a guy like Atobe saying things like that? The snob in me says not.

Of course, there are much more hilarious instances of this. I don't even need a comparison to know that Sanada's manner of speech is horribly wrong:

Photobucket
Photobucket

Whose idea was it to make straight-laced, stick-up-his-ass Sanada sound like a guy from a western? Whoever they are, I would like to find them and thank them for making me laugh hysterically.

Many of the characters' special move names are translated wrong, as well. Example-- "Tezuka Zone" is first translated as "Kunimitsu's Domain," and then later on it becomes "the Kunimitsu Zone." The Japanese clearly has it as "Tezuka Zone." I'm still wondering where that first one came from. They obviously cannot make up their minds, either.

Of course, besides that one, there's the ever-infamous "Drive V." This, as every fan knows quite well, is originally supposed to be "Drive B." The shot looks like a B. The letter in the Japanese is a romanized B. So how on earth did they get this wrong?

...Personally, I think that mistranslation is purely out of spite. There is no other possible explanation for the stupidity.

There's more to it than that that I skimmed over. But I could put up with it all. The names, the cheesiness of the lines, the mistranslations... by the time I got to the Rikkai arc, I was sure that I could put up with any shit that they threw at me, because it was Tenipuri and that was all that mattered.

And then I read the D1 match. And that idea promptly went to hell.

In this match, there are two inaccurate translations that completely ruin the point of the scenes. First of all, little Oishi and little Eiji. Let's compare the scanlation:

Photobucket

with the Viz version:

Photobucket

...I'm sorry, Viz, but that last thing there is not an invitation to play doubles. That is a simple question of whether or not Eiji plays doubles. This is quite missing the point. Oishi is the one who asks Eiji to play doubles, and Eiji refuses. In this, they make it look like Eiji just got it into his head to play doubles with Oishi one day. Not the same thing.

At this point I still thought I could put up with it. And then they gave us this.

Compare the scanlation:

Photobucket

and the Viz version:

Photobucket

[forgive the bad scan; if you look closely you can see where I was mad enough to cross out the line]

Ignoring the name changes and the fact that the scanlation makes it so we're clearly able to tell who's talking. The problem her is that Viz took speech bubbles 2 and 3 as one line when they were clearly supposed to be two. This resulted in a complete mistranslation [and before you go doubting D1, I checked my various sources, and believe me, that translation is wrong].

One version implies that Yagyuu is just as dangerous as Niou. The other version implies that Niou is blackmailing Yagyuu into their little scheme. These are two very different things. Given the fact that these two have very few appearances, and even fewer appearances together, the mistranslation of one important line like that manages to not only take away the truly interesting part of the match, but also completely ruin an important part of Yagyuu's character.

Fellow D1 fans, your opinion? I personally think it's just unforgivable.

Here ends my little spiel-- although I'm sure there are plenty of errors that I haven't pointed out. If there's anything I missed, please feel free to point it out in the comments~

EDIT: It has come to my attention that there are indeed several different interpretations of that last D1 line. Considering I've seen three different translations and at least four interpretations of that one line, I for one am sick of trying to figure it out. I don't know if my interpretation is right or not, and I don't think I will ever know at this point, so I would prefer to please just drop the issue.



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[info]lilbabidevil214
2008-07-02 06:59 pm UTC (link)
Oh my god this is HILARIOUS!!!! Oh Viz, what are we going to do with you?

(Reply to this)


[info]kyraensui
2008-07-02 06:59 pm UTC (link)
I didn't even start collecting this series because of the mistranslation they did on Fuji's name. I know they translated "Huji". I didn't even bother collecting after that.

*fists* For D1's match, the translation is unforgivable. I do remember that line clearly. (<-- watches the musical that follows along the manga). Oh gawd Viz, why must you turn Atobe some ghetto rich kid and Sanada into a cowboy? What the heck?

Thank you for pointing out some in the later series. It really makes me want to get only the original Japanese language.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]siktah_rouge
2008-07-02 07:07 pm UTC (link)
...Oh yeah, I remember they did that at the beginning. Fudomine was "Hudomine," too. The only reason I kept buying the manga myself was that the Viz version was how I got into the series...

Please do only by the original Japanese. I'm ready to stop supporting Viz =_=;;

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]kaerstyne
2008-07-02 07:03 pm UTC (link)
......Yeah, see, I gave up on Viz after hearing about this fabled "Drive V". I could have maybe forgiven them for messing up Earl Cain. Maybe. Eventually. But, Tenipuri. WTF.

The pillar of support nonsense, I can kind of see why they did. Sort of. "Pillar of support" is kind of a wtf expression, and to "carry" something is a relatively common phrasing in English. On the other hand, to "carry" a team implies that the rest of the team sucks ass and needs to be leeched to win anything, which is most definitely not what Tezuka meant, so -_-

I do not have the original Japanese for Atobe or Sanada's lines, unfortunately. But...uh, yeah. Atobe's not so much for the slang. And Sanada isn't either, though I suppose that translation might be some sort of horrible attempt to convey a dialect in the original. Like how Kansai people always get Southern accents? Except I don't remember if Sanada had a particular accent or not. I don't think he did _o_

And D1: no. No, no, no. I can sort of maybe stretch the translation of the original line to see how they got that, but what the hell. Not that I doubt Niou's ability to procure blackmail information... The Kaidou-switching chapter pretty much proves that Yagyuu doesn't mind this switching idea at all. And the more obvious meaning of the line is just that Yagyuu is awesome at seeing other people's weaknesses. Which, given the CONTEXT OF THE MATCH, makes perfect sense.

Also the fact that Rikkaimyu had that line split up between two people. And as the Japanese wrote Rikkaimyu, I suspect they had a hell of a lot better idea what they were doing than us dumbass Americans. And if that line was broken into two parts, it's very difficult to argue the "blackmail" version of it, because that's just not what it says =/

*hisses at Viz*

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]emmayori
2008-07-09 05:33 pm UTC (link)
Sanada didn't speak in a dialect, but he had a very un-middle-schooler-like way of talking (that's why he always gets called an old man in doujinshi). And I kind of wonder what they'll do to Shitenhouji, or to Higa for that matter. Viz gave the Kansai speakers in "Please Save My Earth" surfer accents >_< ...though that might be somewhat appropriate for Kai.

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[info]petapepy
2008-07-02 07:09 pm UTC (link)
OMG, this is crack!!!

I gave up buying the series after translations like these =o=;;;

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2008-07-02 07:12 pm UTC (link)
I'm not a fan of PoT (due to lack of actually reading any of it) but it seems like it's like Dragon Knights is to TP ...

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[info]hoa_dao
2008-07-02 07:13 pm UTC (link)
oops forgot to log in XD

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(no subject) - [info]siktah_rouge, 2008-07-02 07:14 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]digiguy_online, 2008-07-02 07:24 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]siktah_rouge, 2008-07-02 07:28 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]myjulien
2008-07-02 07:35 pm UTC (link)
Omg hahaha. I've always pretty much taken dodgy translation for granted in certain instances, but I have to admit Prince of Tennis is killer in this. Love this entry!

(Reply to this)


[info]kaneha
2008-07-02 07:42 pm UTC (link)
Ah, Viz, no matter how careless Tokyopop's translations get, your will always be worse ^^;;

I'd never dared to read Viz's version of TeniPuri, since I lost all faith in Viz after their translation of X, so that's for the, uh, enlightenment.

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[info]magnet_dance
2008-07-02 08:06 pm UTC (link)
A bit OT over here but I just HAVE to know how those X translations went! XDD

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]reikou_hikari
2008-07-02 08:03 pm UTC (link)
Oh, wow. I actually started getting into Tenipuri by picking up the Viz copy but I felt that there was just something wrong so I stopped reading. Then I went online and began reading the translation and I thought that they just feel right.

Well, now I know why I got a pained and confused look on my face when I started reading the Viz translation. >__>

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[info]magnet_dance
2008-07-02 08:03 pm UTC (link)
This is awful and funny in a very sad sort of way XD;;

Of course the serious fangirl somewhere inside of me wants to say:
People pay for this kinda shit!?
I bet Viz are counting their money and laughing it up somewhere! I'll see those bastards in hell..

(Reply to this)


[info]bloodyapplepi
2008-07-02 08:07 pm UTC (link)
One of the reasons why I stopped purchasing the translation. It's just...absolutely horrible. |:

(Reply to this)


[info]fiendie
2008-07-02 08:14 pm UTC (link)
....oh wow. I'm SO glad I was born in a little European country and have no access to Viz's translation. It's... beyond horrible D:

(Reply to this)


[info]miyoshina
2008-07-02 08:42 pm UTC (link)
I actually used to think VIZ was a more respectable company than Tokyopop. I picked up the first volume because, y'know, I thought it'd be good. *is now going to avoid like the plague* I'd like to personally "whup their butts".

...oh my god, *DYING* XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

(Reply to this)


[info]koyar
2008-07-02 09:04 pm UTC (link)
I haven't read the scanlations or VIZ because I don't need translations. LOLOLOLOL

Atobe whupping butts is an interesting phrase 8D
I'm actually interested in finding out what their individual catchphrases are now...

(Reply to this)


[info]yukimura
2008-07-02 09:05 pm UTC (link)
The German translation is obviously translated from the English one, not the Japanese. It is as bad. I know they spelled Inui's name wrong... Sadahara I think.

Also it is great how they always change how they talk to each other. Everyone uses the given names, only Yukimura is called "Yukimura" and I think they did not change Sanada as well, but Tezuka became "Kunimitsu". He obviously does not have buchou-pride.

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[info]mamuchan
2008-07-02 09:05 pm UTC (link)
I was seriously going to buy one of the books. The one with the messages from the seiyuus (in the original book) but of course it wasn't included in VIZ's version. That's when I decided to have a look at the translation and the name thing gave me such bad creeps that I decided to forget about the whole thing. I'm very happy with the Japanese manga and if anyone truly needs a translation for Tenipuri, the scanlations are much more accurate.

One thing that made me absolutely furious, though, was "burning." What was the f-ing reason to TRANSLATE THAT!? (?_____?) And that Tezuka zone thing kills me. It's way over the line.

Thanks for posting this anyway. (^__^;;)

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[info]nekoashi
2008-07-02 09:12 pm UTC (link)
And THAT is the reason this fangirl never bought a single copy of the english Tenipuri. Thank you, and please send this to Viz. The world needs to be saved! (^_^)

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[info]purple_umeko
2008-07-03 07:12 am UTC (link)
SECONDED!!! XDDDD;

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(no subject) - [info]akirasama, 2008-07-04 10:53 am UTC (Expand)

[info]frauleinrose
2008-07-02 09:23 pm UTC (link)
Oh Viz....

Oh yeah, there's this part where Oshitari uses the Higuma Otoshi...and they say:
"Wasn't that SHUICHIRO'S Higuma Otoshi?!"

Obviously, Higuma Otoshi is FUJI's move, tsk tsk.



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[info]yuki_scorpio
2008-07-02 09:24 pm UTC (link)
Fine examples... except the last one. On that page, Rikkai is actually wondering if Yagyuu is doing this because he's been blackmailed by Niou. So in actual fact... Viz's translation is a bit closer.

But overall, yeah.

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[info]siktah_rouge
2008-07-02 09:36 pm UTC (link)
Well, I guess it depends on how you interpret it... I'm still not quite sure what Konomi really meant by that line, so =/

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(no subject) - [info]yuki_scorpio, 2008-07-02 09:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]siktah_rouge, 2008-07-02 09:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kaerstyne, 2008-07-02 10:49 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]yuki_scorpio, 2008-07-02 11:03 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kaerstyne, 2008-07-02 11:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]yuki_scorpio, 2008-07-02 11:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]siktah_rouge, 2008-07-03 12:00 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]yuki_scorpio, 2008-07-03 12:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]siktah_rouge, 2008-07-03 12:08 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kaerstyne, 2008-07-03 12:10 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ryuzaki_desu, 2008-07-03 10:11 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]inarikami, 2008-07-17 10:06 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]siktah_rouge, 2008-07-17 10:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]inarikami, 2008-07-17 10:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]siktah_rouge, 2008-07-17 10:28 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]inarikami, 2008-07-17 10:12 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]demonoflight
2008-07-02 10:20 pm UTC (link)
Wait wait so do they call everyone by their given names in Viz's translation? That's... beyond horrible. I can't imagine anyone calling Tezuka by his given name except for like, his parents and grandfather. Maybe Fuji. THIS IS SO WRONG.

(Reply to this)


[info]measuringlife
2008-07-02 11:59 pm UTC (link)
....I can't stop laughing with Cowboy!Sanada. I now kind of want to see Ghetto!fabulous!Atobe and Cowboy!Sanada snarking at each other, and I don't even ship Tango!

Ghetto!fabulous!Atobe: I'm going to whup your butt, nerd.
Cowboy!Sanada: Hold on partner, this'll take a pistol tennis duel at high noon.
Ghetto!fabulous!Atobe: You're on. Loser.

(Reply to this) (Thread)(Expand)


[info]siktah_rouge
2008-07-03 12:02 am UTC (link)
...oh my GOD that would be the best crackfic ever *dies* Someone needs to write this now XDDD

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]lady_jewel, 2008-07-03 01:59 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]measuringlife, 2008-07-04 07:28 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]disutansu
2008-07-03 12:26 am UTC (link)
Oh god, XDDD Oh yes, I always crack up so bad when I read Tenipuri manga. *jabs at the page* "WHAT THE HECK!?" I remember that they switched Fuji's and Eiji's names once... and Mizuki's "nfu" became "nyuk nyuk" (a la Curly from the Three Stooges? [/old reference])

God really. *desk*

(Reply to this)


[info]bead_artist
2008-07-03 12:53 am UTC (link)
Things like this plus the fact that a lot of good stuff will NEVER be translated into English prompted me to start learning Japanese. It is just one more sad example of Americans & American companies being, at best, indifferent to other languages. If a group of people do the scanlations for free in their precious spare time can get it right how come paid professionals cannot? That is another reason I am studying Japanese, I'd like to eventually give back to the communities what I have been blessed to enjoy. I may never be entirely fluent, but at least I could contribute to a scanlation team. The people who fansub the animes are also incredible in my eyes. I know many of them are University students and I know how little time I had then.

When I was in the Army I was a Korean linguist. I KNOW how one mistranslated word or phrase can cause a lot of trouble and misunderstanding at the very least and an escalation of a very tense situation at worst. I hope the people translating for Viz never go to work for say, the State Dept or NSA, if they can't get a manga correct how can we trust them to translate often garbled and difficult to understand radio transmissions?

I'm sure their attitude is that it is just a manga and it really makes no difference. Too bad some of the folks on the scanlation and fansub teams can't get jobs at Viz. At the very least we might start trusting the translations more.

I know I've ranted, but I have learned several languages at different levels of proficiency in my life. I was also an elementary school teacher with an ESL (English as a Second Language) endorsement along with a Masters in bilingual multicultural education. It is a shame that most Americans cannot speak a 2nd language. I see people apologize in their fanfics for their "poor English" and think most Americans could not write such good prose in another language.

And I agree, I've stopped buying the Viz manga now that I have the scanlations on my HD and I buy 2-3 volumes of the manga when I can afford it, eventually I'll get the whole set. LOL Perhaps by then I'll be able to read them. I've already done the same for other shorter series. Between Ebay, JPQueen, Sasuga and Akadot it is possible to get most if not all of what you want.

I'll quit now. Sorry but languages and linguistics are 2 of my biggest passions.

Pamela Joy

(Reply to this)


[info]numisma
2008-07-03 02:03 am UTC (link)
...Wow. I haven't seen the Rikkai arc in Viz!English yet, so the part about Niou and Yagyuu was a surprise to me. Ouch. WTF, dude.

(Reply to this)


[info]zen_strike
2008-07-03 03:46 am UTC (link)
SEIGAKU NO HASHIRA NI NARE. SERIOUSLY. WTF. THANK YOU FOR SHOWING US THIS. I AM GOING TO STAB SOMETHING.

(Reply to this)


[info]ilovefuji_xx
2008-07-03 06:02 am UTC (link)
OMFG YES! I have volume 14 and I was soooo pissed off with the Oshitori wtf. And in the same volume after 'Oshitori' used the Higuma Otoshi they wrote, isn't that Suichiro's Higuma Otoshi? EURGHHH!

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